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Q&A

Comments on Titanic submarine control considerations

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Titanic submarine control considerations

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The submarine built by OceanGate went missing on 18th June 2023. A lot of online criticism was directed towards the control hardware of the submarine - Logitech F710 controller. Image_alt_text Image_alt_text

However, why is this the case? It has 2 dual axis potentiometers and some capacitive sensing buttons. Why is this controller seen as insufficient? Even military equipment seems to be controlled with video game controllers, one reason being that operators are familiar with the controller from playing video games in the past

One thing that comes to mind is water resistance. If the hull became partially flooded, the controller might get water damage and lose functionality. Besides that, what other safety considerations are there? Is the internet knee jerk reaction of 'Oh my god they are controlling a submarine with a gaming console, how unprofessional' just an uninformed outcry, or are they founded in legitimate concerns?

If anyone has maritime engineering experience, please share what are the industry standards and considerations when designing controls for submarines.

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2 comment threads

Why the downvotes? (9 comments)
Partially flooded? Not going to happen. (1 comment)
Why the downvotes?
Olin Lathrop‭ wrote over 1 year ago

What's with the downvotes? This question is well written, to the point, uses pictures well to illustrate the point, and is a legitimate question prompted by current events. It's not asking a user-level question about a game controller, but design issues that make products suitable for different uses.

Nick Alexeev‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Olin Lathrop‭ This is not a great question, because its origin lies in the mainstream lay media. They wanted to sensationalize [scandalize]. They picked the only item of hardware which they recognized. Ultimately, they were barking up a wrong tree.

Nick Alexeev‭ wrote over 1 year ago · edited over 1 year ago

If approximately the same question were asked as "I need a joystick for a high reliability [medical, industrial, etc] application. Can I use a civilian game controller?" then it would be a real question. It would be an O.P.'s own application, and not something from TV news. The answer would be along the lines of "Maybe. Something like that has been done. Let's do some risk analysis."

Elleanor Lopez‭ wrote over 1 year ago

So by the same logic something like electrical issues and system design with Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System that brought down Boeing737 MAX planes also cannot be discussed because it was covered by the media? I think the answers highlight the weak points in design choices and provide insight into how hardware should be designed to match the requirements of respective applications. It has nothing to do with media.

Olin Lathrop‭ wrote over 1 year ago

I don't see anything wrong with a question that was prompted by current events, as long as it asks about real EE issues like design tradeoffs. In my opinion, this question meets those criteria.

Lorenzo Donati‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Nick Alexeev‭ I'm definitely with Olin here. This site is about education and the willingness to learn. The fact that a curiosity was prompted by the news is irrelevant. The question should be based on its own merit, and Olin has already stated those. There is no shame for a newbie or a non specialist to ask why some piece of hardware is not suitable for an application, if the question is framed in an electronics engineering context.

Nick Alexeev‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Lorenzo Donati‭ Hi Lorenzo, good to see you here. Answers can be biased by what TV is saying . I'm talking about layman TV news who sensationalize. I'm not talking about news in a trade journal. Elleanor was asking if questions about Boeing 737 MAX flaws are okay. The smoke had settled by now, so those might be okay. By the same token, the question about the Titan joystick might be okay when its respective smoke settles.

Lorenzo Donati‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Nick Alexeev‭ Hi Nick! I understand your concerns, but again, the smoke that may cloud non-technical people vision in a general news forum should not affect us. We are not flooded with questions or answers, so we have no problems of dumb answers given by some random guy who just want to post some opinionated stuff. On the contrary, we do lack contributors, so enforcing still more policy filters to questions or answers may hurt us (we still have very strong guidelines in place, as they appear in the help center, and this question meets all of them). As I said, the question in itself is well motivated and the fact that it was prompted by an highly hyped news event is irrelevant IMO. Remove the first sentence (adjusting the following text) and the question is still decently written, with a reasonable doubt: "if a military UAV can be piloted with commercial joysticks, why a submarine can't". The OP even recognizes that the media hype could be a factor.

Lorenzo Donati‭ wrote over 1 year ago · edited over 1 year ago

Nick Alexeev‭ BTW, sometimes commercial products can be incredibly sturdy, despite their price tag. I still use a Logitech wireless keyboard purchased more than at least 18 years ago! I use it daily and the silkscreen on the keys has not worn off a bit, despite the plastic having become a bit glossy from the wear. It wasn't even a top of the line device, but something a step above entry level. It even got better with time: since the beginning it had a shift key and the space bar that was very slightly prone to stick a bit when pressed, now with years of usage they became smoother! So it's not unreasonable to think that some commercial product might be used in some more professional setting.