Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Post History

71%
+3 −0
Q&A Power amplifier for remote controller

The data sheet gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 wit...

posted 1y ago by Andy aka‭  ·  edited 1y ago by Andy aka‭

Answer
#4: Post edited by user avatar Andy aka‭ · 2022-09-10T13:11:13Z (over 1 year ago)
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • $$$$
  • > _Is there a way to calculate the approximate range of this remote controller?_
  • You can use the [Friis transmission equation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_transmission_equation) to calculate the free-space link loss between transmit antenna and receive antenna. It's based on carrier frequency, distance and antenna gains. For a simple antenna (a monopole) you have an extra gain of 2 dB for each end. Anyway the formula for isotropic antennas (null gain) is: -
  • Link loss (dB) = 32.4 dB + 20log(MHz) + 20log(kilometres)
  • Putting you figures in (and assuming a 1 GHz carrier) we get LL = 32.4 dB + 60 dB + (-34 dB). That's a link loss of 58 dB in free-space. But, we should probably add another 20 dB for fading bringing us to 78 dB. Then because I'm assuming monopole antennas, this drops to 74 dB.
  • You then might ask whether your receiver is capable of working with this amount of attenuation. After all, if only 1 mW is transmitted, your receiver is only going to see -74 dBm and, is this enough?
  • Well, there's another generally used formula that ascertains how much power a receiver needs based on noise statistics, ambient temperature and receiver bandwidth. Bandwidth is usually swapped with bit rate. Formula: -
  • Minimum power = -154 dBm +10log(bit rate)
  • So, if your bit rate is 100 kHz then the minimum receive power should be greater than -104 dBm. And, if my numbers match your true numbers then 20 metres should be a breeze.
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • $$$$
  • > _Is there a way to calculate the approximate range of this remote controller?_
  • You can use the [Friis transmission equation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_transmission_equation) to calculate the free-space link loss between isotropic transmit and receive antennas. It's based on carrier frequency and distance. For a simple antenna like a monopole, you have an extra gain of 2 dB at each end. Anyway the formula for isotropic antennas (null gain) is: -
  • $$$$
  • Link loss (dB) = 32.4 dB + 20log(MHz) + 20log(kilometres)
  • $$$$
  • Putting your figures in (and assuming a 1 GHz carrier) we get LL = 32.4 dB + 60 dB + (-34 dB). That's a link loss of 58 dB in free-space. But, we should probably add another 20 dB for fade-margin bringing us to 78 dB of link loss. Then, because I'm assuming monopole antennas, this drops to 74 dB.
  • You then might ask whether your receiver is capable of working with this amount of attenuation. After all, if only 1 mW is transmitted, your receiver is only going to see -74 dBm and, is this enough?
  • Well, there's another generally used formula that ascertains how much power a receiver needs based on noise statistics, ambient temperature and receiver bandwidth. Bandwidth is usually swapped with bit rate. Formula: -
  • $$$$
  • Minimum power = -154 dBm +10log(bit rate)
  • $$$$
  • So, if your bit rate is 100 kHz then the minimum receive power should be greater than -104 dBm. And, if my numbers match your true numbers then 20 metres should be a breeze.
#3: Post edited by user avatar Andy aka‭ · 2022-09-09T16:16:02Z (over 1 year ago)
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • > _Is there a way to calculate the approximate range of this remote controller?_
  • If you know the receiver minimum guaranteed sensitivity you can use the [Friis transmission equation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_transmission_equation) to calculate the free-space link loss between transmit antenna and receive antenna. It's based on carrier frequency, distance and antenna gains. For a simple antenna (a monopole) you have an extra gain of 2 dB for each end. Anyway the formula for isotropic antennas (null gain) is: -
  • Link loss (dB) = 32.4 dB + 20log(MHz) + 20log(kilometres)
  • Putting you figures in (and assuming a 1 GHz carrier) we get LL = 32.4 dB + 60 dB + (-34 dB). That's a link loss of 58 dB in free-space. But, we should probably add another 20 dB for fading bringing us to 78 dB. Then because I'm assuming monopole antennas, this drops to 74 dB.
  • You then might ask whether your receiver is capable of working with this amount of attenuation. After all, if only 1 mW is transmitted, your receiver is only going to see -74 dBm and, is this enough?
  • Well, there's another generally used formula that ascertains how much power a receiver needs based on noise statistics, ambient temperature and receiver bandwidth. Bandwidth is usually swapped with bit rate. Formula: -
  • Minimum power = -154 dBm +10log(bit rate)
  • So, if your bit rate is 100 kHz then the minimum receive power should be greater than -104 dBm. And, if my numbers match your true numbers then 20 metres should be a breeze.
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • $$$$
  • > _Is there a way to calculate the approximate range of this remote controller?_
  • You can use the [Friis transmission equation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_transmission_equation) to calculate the free-space link loss between transmit antenna and receive antenna. It's based on carrier frequency, distance and antenna gains. For a simple antenna (a monopole) you have an extra gain of 2 dB for each end. Anyway the formula for isotropic antennas (null gain) is: -
  • Link loss (dB) = 32.4 dB + 20log(MHz) + 20log(kilometres)
  • Putting you figures in (and assuming a 1 GHz carrier) we get LL = 32.4 dB + 60 dB + (-34 dB). That's a link loss of 58 dB in free-space. But, we should probably add another 20 dB for fading bringing us to 78 dB. Then because I'm assuming monopole antennas, this drops to 74 dB.
  • You then might ask whether your receiver is capable of working with this amount of attenuation. After all, if only 1 mW is transmitted, your receiver is only going to see -74 dBm and, is this enough?
  • Well, there's another generally used formula that ascertains how much power a receiver needs based on noise statistics, ambient temperature and receiver bandwidth. Bandwidth is usually swapped with bit rate. Formula: -
  • Minimum power = -154 dBm +10log(bit rate)
  • So, if your bit rate is 100 kHz then the minimum receive power should be greater than -104 dBm. And, if my numbers match your true numbers then 20 metres should be a breeze.
#2: Post edited by user avatar Andy aka‭ · 2022-09-09T16:14:48Z (over 1 year ago)
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.
  • > _Is there a way to calculate the approximate range of this remote controller?_
  • If you know the receiver minimum guaranteed sensitivity you can use the [Friis transmission equation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friis_transmission_equation) to calculate the free-space link loss between transmit antenna and receive antenna. It's based on carrier frequency, distance and antenna gains. For a simple antenna (a monopole) you have an extra gain of 2 dB for each end. Anyway the formula for isotropic antennas (null gain) is: -
  • Link loss (dB) = 32.4 dB + 20log(MHz) + 20log(kilometres)
  • Putting you figures in (and assuming a 1 GHz carrier) we get LL = 32.4 dB + 60 dB + (-34 dB). That's a link loss of 58 dB in free-space. But, we should probably add another 20 dB for fading bringing us to 78 dB. Then because I'm assuming monopole antennas, this drops to 74 dB.
  • You then might ask whether your receiver is capable of working with this amount of attenuation. After all, if only 1 mW is transmitted, your receiver is only going to see -74 dBm and, is this enough?
  • Well, there's another generally used formula that ascertains how much power a receiver needs based on noise statistics, ambient temperature and receiver bandwidth. Bandwidth is usually swapped with bit rate. Formula: -
  • Minimum power = -154 dBm +10log(bit rate)
  • So, if your bit rate is 100 kHz then the minimum receive power should be greater than -104 dBm. And, if my numbers match your true numbers then 20 metres should be a breeze.
#1: Initial revision by user avatar Andy aka‭ · 2022-09-01T18:01:41Z (over 1 year ago)
The [data sheet](https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/SMD/nRF24L01Pluss_Preliminary_Product_Specification_v1_0.pdf) gives a perfectly good example of using the nRF24L01 without an external PA. It has an internal PA capable of driving an antenna <-- just look at the design example on page 63 with PCB layouts on following pages and sure, you can use any suitable antenna.