Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »
Q&A

Comments on Help with differential to single ended voltage converter

Parent

Help with differential to single ended voltage converter

+3
−1

Hello I don't understand how this differential to single-ended voltage converter can work.

What I don't understand is why we place a current mirror(a current mirror copies the current flowing through one transistor to another transistor) and how is the output voltage affected by the input voltages.

SeeMe

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.
Why should this post be closed?

0 comment threads

Post
+0
−0

My Comment

I will begin my answer by commenting on the other two answers from two months ago. I will show that they do not contradict but rather complement each other.

Ideal current sources. I can not agree with Olin Lathrop's assertion that this arrangement "works fine for ideal current sources as long as they are passive" since, as he himself has noted, the circuit will be a comparator and the output voltage will stay close to one of the supply rails.

Non-ideal current source(s). "To work fine" (to be linear) in the case of the open circuit (no load connected), at least one of the current sources must be non-ideal. So, the problem is how to make an ideal current source non-ideal. There are two ways proposed since the 19th century by Thevenin and Norton.

According to Thevenin. By its nature, an ideal current source consists of a voltage source and an infinite differential resistance in series. ("differential" means that it is infinite only for current changes). To make it non-ideal, we have to decrease its resistance (make it finite). In the transistor implementation of this idea (dynamic load), the resistance is decreased because of the Early effect.

According to Norton. But what do we do if we cannot change the internal resistance of the ideal current source? How do we make it non-ideal? Norton's idea can help us.

Intentional "worsening". For this purpose, we can connect a constant (ohmic) resistor in parallel to the ideal current source. It will divert a part of the current and the combination of the two elements will act as a real (non-ideal) current source.

Natural "worsening". In fact, as LvW has noted, such resistance always exists; it is the input resistance of the next stage.

So, this arrangement will work in both situations - Thevenin real current sources without load (open circuit) and ideal current sources with load.

Both explanations are correct but Olin's explanation will be true only in the case of real current sources while LvW's explanation will be valid in both cases (real and ideal current sources).

My Explanation

We can see two clever ideas in this circuit solution that can be figuratively named dynamic load and transistor cloning. Let's try to explain them in an intuitive way.

Dynamic load

LvW: "WHY goes Vout high? We have two (non-ideal) current sources with a conflicting behaviour. How and why does this fact influence the voltage at the common point?"

Current source. Exactly, LvW! This is the main question to be answered herе! Unfortunately, this cannot be done with the concept of current source and through this circuit of two current sources in series because it is not clear what is inside these current sources and how they function. The answer to this question can only be given through the concept of dynamic resistance. What is it?

Dynamic resistor. The two "current sources" in series actually are resistors… a special kind of resistors but still resistors. In contrast to ordinary ohmic resistors, their resistance does not stay constant but varies when the current tries to change. For example, if the voltage across such a dynamic resistor increases, it increases its resistance with the same rate of change and the ratio V/R = I stays constant. In addition, this property is controlled by an input voltage.

So, the full descriptive name of these elements (implemented by transistors here) can be "voltage-controlled current-stabilizing nonlinear resistors".

Voltage divider. Two resistors in series form the well-known 19th century voltage divider. If we keep the whole voltage across the network constant, and vary some of the resistances, the voltage drops across them will vary and we can take some of them (usually, the grounded one) as an output.

Potentiometer. If, in a variable voltage divider (the so-called potentiometer), both partial resistances r1 and r2 vary in opposite directions with the same rate, their sum will stay constant. As a result, the current I = V/(r1 + r2) is also constant; only the partial voltage drops across the resistances vary (crossfade) in opposite directions.

Dynamic voltage divider. Now imagine that there is some increasing gear on the wiper and it is enough to move it slightly and the voltage changes a lot. Here, this is a simple electrical analogy of our arrangement known as "dynamic load".

Dynamic load. So, the two transistors Q2 and Q4 act as voltage-controlled dynamic resistors that, under control of two oppositely (differentially) changing input voltages V- and V+, vigorously change their collector-emitter static resistances in opposite directions (they act as two crossfading dynamic resistances). As a result, their collector-emitter voltage drops vigorously redistribute (crossfade). The whole network acts as a kind of a super sensitive electronic potentiometer (high gain amplifier). Note (LvW) that no load is required for the circuit to operate in linear mode; it can operate on an open circuit.

CMOS stage is another excellent implementation of this idea.

Transistor cloning

The network of two dynamic resistors is stretched between the supply rails so one of them is "pulling up" and the other is "pulling down". The voltage drop across the pull-down resistor is taken as a grounded output voltage.

The one input voltage VIN- is grounded and applied between the base of the pull-down "resistor" Q2 and ground. The problem is with the second input voltage VIN+ that is also grounded but, to control the pull-up "resistor" Q4, it should be applied between its base and Vcc… but this is impossible. That is why a clever trick is used which I call "transistor cloning".

VIN+ controls another grounded pull-down transistor Q1. Then, with the help of the current mirror, Q1 is cloned by Q4… as though, Q1 is moved above Q2.

From another viewpoint, the current mirror can be considered as an "electric transmission" that connects Q1 and Q2 to make the dynamic voltage divider.

History
Why does this post require attention from curators or moderators?
You might want to add some details to your flag.

1 comment thread

Incorrect statement about ideal current sources (9 comments)
Incorrect statement about ideal current sources
Elliot Alderson‭ wrote about 3 years ago

A "voltage source and an infinitely high resistance in series" is only a current source if you want zero current. An ideal current source does not need to "consist" of anything, it is an elemental unit in itself. Its function is to constrain the current flowing through it.

Circuit fantasist‭ wrote about 3 years ago

Okay, I did not want to delve into the essence of the ideal current source, but I will clarify.

The ideal current source is an element but, for the purposes of intuitive understanding, we need to know what is inside it… since there are no genuine current sources in nature… and we have somehow to make them…

The general idea is by connecting two elements - a voltage source and a resistor, in series. The simplest case is when they have constant voltage and resistance; then the current source is imperfect.

Next, we can make it almost ideal if we begin increasing both voltage and resistance up to infinity. Then the current will have some constant value (it would be zero, as you said, if we were increasing only the resistance). This is the way they make current sources in electrical circuits...

Circuit fantasist‭ wrote about 3 years ago

In electronics, we use a more clever trick to make almost "ideal" (perfect) current sources - we keep the voltage constant but vary the resistance when some disturbance (e.g., the load) tries to change the current. So, the resistance is not infinite but "dynamic".

In the transistor implementation of a perfect current source, Vcc plays the role of the constant voltage source and the collector-emitter part serves as the dynamic resistor. These two elements in series form an almost "ideal" current source.

Circuit fantasist‭ wrote about 3 years ago

Here is another point of view on this issue. The dynamic resistor (transistor) plays only the role of a self-regulating element that determines the current produced by the voltage source just as the transistor in an amplifier plays the role of a regulating element. In both cases, for the purposes of intuitive understanding, it is good to include the voltage source to the device.

Elliot Alderson‭ wrote about 3 years ago

The essence of the ideal current source is quite simple, and trying to convert it to a voltage source and some kind of magic dynamic resistor only makes it harder to understand. The ideal current source is a primitive element; it is not composed of other elements. I think your "intuitive" explanation is much more confusing than using the simple, concise definition for an ideal current source.

Circuit fantasist‭ wrote about 3 years ago · edited about 3 years ago

"The essence of the ideal current source is quite simple" because it is presented in a formal way in textbooks. As a result, students only superficially know what a current source is - just as a definition and as a circle with an arrow inside that keeps the current constant. But they do not know how it does this magic, what produces the current, what is inside this circle, how to make it because there are not genuine current sources in nature...

MissMulan‭ wrote about 3 years ago

"...how to make it because there are not genuine current sources in nature...".I disagree . A photodiode is a current source in photovoltaic mode.

Circuit fantasist‭ wrote about 3 years ago · edited about 3 years ago

Yes, this is a small exception... So, if we connect two photodiodes in a loop, they will compete and this network will act like a "dynamic load"? If so, this will be a very sensitive differential photo sensor...

LvW‭ wrote about 3 years ago · edited about 3 years ago

Quote Elliot Andersen: "The essence of the ideal current source is quite simple, and trying to convert it to a voltage source and some kind of magic dynamic resistor only makes it harder to understand."

I strongly disagree. Who can UNDERSTAND (from the technical/physical point of view) an element which does not exist in reality? There are no "ideal" current sources - we only use a corresponding symbol in a circuit diagram in order to simplify drawings and calculations.

A conversion to "a voltage source and some kind of magic dynamic resistor" is the ONLY way to UNDERSTAND whats really going on.

I repeat: The working principle of a differential pair (subject of this discussion) can only be explained based on real circuit behaviour - that means: BJT as a non-ideal current source (finite slope of the Ic=f(Vce) characteristics.