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Comments on what should the output be for this use case of the CD4047 chip?

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what should the output be for this use case of the CD4047 chip?

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Hello, I am trying to use a CD4047 in monostable, positive-edge trigger mode:

Image alt text

Image alt text

I am not skilled enough to make out what the output, i.e. pin 10, should be when pin 8, the input, is held at 0V (0.1V for some reason). Would expect it to be 0V, I am getting Vdd instead. Is this to be expected? Tried with two chips from different manufacturers bought from different stores.

My diagram:

Image alt text

P-MOSFET: FQP17P06 TVS diodes: P6KE18A (Schottky) Diodes: SBCT2040

I am pretty sure everything has been wired correctly; tried on an Arduino UNO @ 5V and car battery @ 12V; I did measure pin 8, input, to be some 0.1 V in the absence of the T signal.


This is getting quite weird. I have been poking at one of the circuit boards doing voltage measurements, putting the B and T signals to 0V / 5V / rectangular 0 -> 5V, it has started working as expected. I have then taken the second board, that one too has started to work as well. Some more fiddling later and only one kept working as expected.

Some hours later and I think both chips are fine. Quitea few cold joints... I am going to retry them both PCBs on the 12V vehicle setup.

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2 comment threads

Show the schematic (9 comments)
You should be getting 0V (3 comments)
Show the schematic
Olin Lathrop‭ wrote over 1 year ago

We need to see exactly what you connected to this chip. Show the schematic. It would also help to provide a link directly to the datasheet of the chip.

kellogs‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Updated, thank you

Lundin‭ wrote over 1 year ago

kellogs‭ Well that's a weird schematic. Why do you have zener diodes where one would expect to see capacitors? Are you running this from some raw battery voltage or something? Also if you have a pull-down on the P MOSFET, it will conduct as default, is this intentional? What are the voltages?

kellogs‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Lundin‭ This is meant to be used on a 12V vehicle. TVS diodes for a bit of protection, gate is pulled down by design. Which voltages aside from the ones in main question ?

Lundin‭ wrote over 1 year ago

kellogs‭ I mean the supply voltages. Placing TVS only makes sense on inputs/outputs, not in the middle of the circuit - everything after the voltage regular is to be regarded as relatively clean. You absolutely do need to have decoupling caps there however, 100nF close to the supply pin of the IC. Also in automotive electronics pull resistors of 100k/1M are unacceptable - way too sensitive to EMI. Use 10k max, 4k7 is also common.

Lundin‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Oh and 600W peak pulse is too weak TVS for automotive, you need 1500W. I don't remember which exact standard that requires this, but I do remember failing EMC testing once for this very reason.

kellogs‭ wrote over 1 year ago · edited over 1 year ago

@Lundin I shall add some caps, thank you. Do the resistor values still matter if B, T signal frequencies are in the sub-Hz range ?

Lundin‭ wrote over 1 year ago

kellogs‭ The reason why one should avoid high ohm pull resistors is because RF energy from external spurious emissions (radiated or conducted) will be present and with 5V/1Mohm you only need >5uA to pull the line in the opposite direction. There's a big design difference between low power consumer applications and automotive/industrial overall.

rdtsc‭ wrote over 1 year ago

Note, automotive applications can see a "load-dump" pulse of about 80V for a very short time. It is a really harsh electrical environment. I once built a blinking LED using a 2N3906 to switch on when the ignition was off (poor man's fake car alarm.) Worked great for a year or two, then one day, it didn't work anymore. Took it apart, and found the 1A fuse included with it had blown. That was because the 2N3906 (only rated for 40V) had shorted, from some event when the battery was at least over 40V. If a fuse hadn't have been used, it could have meant a car fire, then a garage fire!